View source for Talk:Swap rule

Does anybody know when the swap rule was introduced?

Apparently near the beginning of the 20th century in a game called mancala.  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_rule]

== Swapping the A column?  ==

It has occurred to me to doubt the wisdom of swapping most of the left- or right-most columns.  I'm just thinking about the templates and how they can block the opening move.

For example, on an 11x11 board, A4 is marked as a probable winner, but the bridge template played at B5 seems to be a good block and when I work it out, A4 seems to lose.
There are also template moves at C5 (ziggurat), and some fourth and fifth-row templates that seem promising.

Comments? [[User:4Dummies|4Dummies]] ([[User_talk:4Dummies|talk]]) 13:49, 8 February 2024‎

The problem is that B5 is not actually a good response to A4. Although B5 is a template and a ladder escape for White, A4 still gives Black a [[switchback]] for 2nd row ladders. Moreover, after White plays B5, it's Black's turn again, so White has lost the initiative. After A4 and B5, if Black plays anywhere near the center, Black is almost definitely winning (97-99% win rate according to [[KataHex]]). For example, H4, G5, D8 are all excellent choices for Black's next move. [[User:Selinger|Selinger]] ([[User talk:Selinger|talk]]) 19:16, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for that.  A bunch.  I had just realized that B5 corresponds to an opening (swapped) at E2, which is noted as losing.  So it's not so good on the face of it.  However, there are taller templates that fit between A4 and the bottom of an 11x11 board, and they might be a bunch better.

Even more important in your reply was that I had never before heard of KataHex.  I'm real interested in training an AI on my data.  I have about 1.6 million games (no kidding) of 11x11 hex, gathered from real games and much amplified by six with a little guidance from HexHex.  I don't know how to train HexHex either, but it sounds like KataHex is probably stronger.  I just don't know how to do the training.  My data is in HSGF format, that I process using the hexrec program that originally came from gamerecorder.

== Size 14 convention ==

If there are no objections, I'd like to switch the (*) and (+) symbols for the size 14 swap map so it's consistent with other sizes: (*) > (+) > (-) in order of fairness. (I personally think this is the most memorable ordering, (*) has the most "lines" in the symbol followed by (+) and then (-).) [[User:Hexanna|Hexanna]] ([[User talk:Hexanna|talk]]) 23:48, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

* This sound like a good idea. I have changed that. It makes sense that each step increases the number of lines by 1. [[User:Comonoid|Comonoid]] ([[User talk:Comonoid|talk]]) 00:04, 4 October 2024 (UTC)